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	<title>(b)logophile &#187; greece</title>
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	<link>http://www.logophile.org/blog</link>
	<description>blog of a logophile (not "logos", but "λόγος")</description>
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			<item>
		<title>More about Greece</title>
		<link>http://www.logophile.org/blog/2011/11/19/more-about-greece/</link>
		<comments>http://www.logophile.org/blog/2011/11/19/more-about-greece/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2011 14:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>tikitu</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[bafflement]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[greece]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[spin]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.logophile.org/blog/?p=1153</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Olga has pointed me at another interesting analysis of the situation in Greece: Seven Myths about the Greek Debt Crisis by Stergios Skaperdas. Like the last time I weighed in on the subject, I can&#8217;t properly evaluate the economic arguments and I catch a strong whiff of bias (the section arguing that the public sector [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Olga has pointed me at another interesting analysis of the situation in Greece: <a href="http://greekleftreview.wordpress.com/2011/11/12/seven-myths-about-the-greek-debt-crisis/"><em>Seven Myths about the Greek Debt Crisis</em></a> by Stergios Skaperdas. Like <a href="http://www.logophile.org/blog/2011/06/15/the-dutch-on-greece/">the last time I weighed in on the subject</a>, I can&#8217;t properly evaluate the economic arguments and I catch a strong whiff of bias (the section arguing that the public sector is not especially corrupt is particularly weak). But as an unrepentant ex-game-theorist I found the comments on who is gaining and losing from the current situation extremely interesting (as well as the discussion of the bargaining power that Greece has, but has not been using).</p>

<p>Most fascinating of all, though, is the fact that (apparently) nobody in Greece is seriously investigating the option of leaving the euro. Surely this is something that has to be looked at carefully, even if only to establish for sure that it&#8217;s not the right option? And it only takes a moment&#8217;s thought to see that there&#8217;s no way the Greeks could trust the IMF or the various other external groups involved to make such an analysis: while I certainly can&#8217;t tell if Skaperdas is right in saying that defaulting and leaving the euro is the best option for Greece, it would clearly involve a huge amount of damage to her creditors.</p>

<p>One thing has me absolutely baffled about the Greek political situation. As I understand it there are two major parties, both of which have lost huge amounts of credibility because of their involvement in the crisis. Surely this would be the perfect moment to launch a <em>new</em> political movement, on a radical nationalist platform (&#8220;Greece for Greeks, not for Germans and the IMF&#8221;) promising to revoke the austerity measures and tell the rest of Europe to go stuff itself. I&#8217;m not saying this would be a good thing; in fact it seems a bit like the rise of National Socialism out of the depression and instability of the Weimar Republic. But it seems like a perfect move for short-term political gain (and my internal game-theorist whispers the reminder that short-term gain is what matters in electoral politics). So why isn&#8217;t anyone doing it?</p>
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		<slash:comments>12</slash:comments>
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		<title>Olympus (or: What I Missed)</title>
		<link>http://www.logophile.org/blog/2010/08/06/olympus-or-what-i-missed/</link>
		<comments>http://www.logophile.org/blog/2010/08/06/olympus-or-what-i-missed/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Aug 2010 15:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>tikitu</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[envy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[greece]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[tramping]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.logophile.org/blog/?p=951</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I came back from Greece last week, and have settled comfortably back into work. But Olga stayed a bit longer, and did something awesome: she climbed Mt Olympus. Here are just a couple of photos; you can find more on her blog. Check out Olga&#8217;s gallery for more fit Greeks, toe-curling alpine views, lovely wildflowers, [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came back from Greece last week, and have settled comfortably back into work. But Olga stayed a bit longer, and did something awesome: she climbed Mt Olympus.</p>

<p>Here are just a couple of photos; you can find more <a href="http://www.ipernity.com/doc/ftaneipia/album/199530">on her blog</a>.</p>

<div id="attachment_952" class="wp-caption aligncenter" style="width: 385px"><a href="http://www.ipernity.com/doc/ftaneipia/8693931/sizes/in/album/199530"><img src="http://www.logophile.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/DSC01050_500.jpg" alt="A horse posing in front of the peak of My Olympus" width="375" height="500" class="size-full wp-image-952" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Bare country for horses.</p></div>

<div id="attachment_953" class="wp-caption aligncenter" style="width: 385px"><a href="http://www.ipernity.com/doc/ftaneipia/8695519/in/album/199530?from=8695567&amp;at=1281050148"><img src="http://www.logophile.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/DSC00873_500.jpg" alt="Cloudy on the tops" title="Cloudy on the tops" width="375" height="500" class="size-full wp-image-953" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">The road goes ever on and on...</p></div>

<div id="attachment_954" class="wp-caption aligncenter" style="width: 385px"><a href="http://www.ipernity.com/doc/ftaneipia/8695759/in/album/199530"><img src="http://www.logophile.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/DSC00815_500.jpg" alt="Who&#039;s that hotty?" title="Who&#039;s that hotty?" width="375" height="500" class="size-full wp-image-954" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Is she taking the pic herself? Concentrating face...</p></div>

<div id="attachment_955" class="wp-caption aligncenter" style="width: 385px"><a href="http://www.ipernity.com/doc/ftaneipia/8693989/in/album/199530?from=8694029&amp;at=1281037463"><img src="http://www.logophile.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/DSC01022_500.jpg" alt="Wild country" title="Wild country" width="375" height="500" class="size-full wp-image-955" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Spot the people. Keep looking... keep looking...</p></div>

<p>Check out <a href="http://www.ipernity.com/doc/ftaneipia/album/199530">Olga&#8217;s gallery</a> for more fit Greeks, toe-curling alpine views, lovely wildflowers, and for some reason a couple of candid shots of donkey and horse anatomy (parental discretion advised). I&#8217;m deeply envious.<sup>1</sup></p>
<p>Notes:</p><ol class="footnotes"><li id="footnote_0_951" class="footnote">Of Olga, not the horse.</li></ol>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Constructive suggestion</title>
		<link>http://www.logophile.org/blog/2010/03/07/constructive-suggestion/</link>
		<comments>http://www.logophile.org/blog/2010/03/07/constructive-suggestion/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 19:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>tikitu</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[bemusement]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[greece]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[provocation]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.logophile.org/blog/?p=841</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So yeah, the Greek economy is on the rocks. Which puts the rest of Europe under pressure. Which leads some German politicians to make helpful suggestions that one somehow expects will not be appreciated. One also has a sneaking suspicion that the gentlemen in question have probably never had a conversation with a real live [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So yeah, the Greek economy is on the rocks. Which puts the rest of Europe under pressure. Which leads some German politicians to make <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/mar/04/greece-sell-islands-german-mps">helpful suggestions that one somehow expects will not be appreciated</a>.</p>

<p>One also has a sneaking suspicion that the gentlemen in question have probably never had a conversation with a real live Greek before.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>Off up and away!</title>
		<link>http://www.logophile.org/blog/2008/12/15/off-up-and-away/</link>
		<comments>http://www.logophile.org/blog/2008/12/15/off-up-and-away/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>tikitu</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[gloating]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[greece]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.logophile.org/blog/?p=537</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tomorrow we leave for Greece. I expect we&#8217;ll end up either set on fire or fed until we burst, depending on whether we get caught first by the Greek rioters or the Greek mothers. If we survive these many and varied perils, there might be a few photos and stories in the offing. Check back [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tomorrow we leave for Greece.</p>

<p>I expect we&#8217;ll end up either set on fire or fed until we burst, depending on whether we get caught first by the Greek rioters or the Greek mothers.</p>

<p>If we survive these many and varied perils, there might be a few photos and stories in the offing. Check back mid-January (yes, we&#8217;re taking a long break).</p>
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		<title>More on the Athens riots</title>
		<link>http://www.logophile.org/blog/2008/12/10/more-on-the-athens-riots/</link>
		<comments>http://www.logophile.org/blog/2008/12/10/more-on-the-athens-riots/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>tikitu</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[anger]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[greece]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[politics]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.logophile.org/blog/?p=533</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Prependum (for my parents): Yes, we&#8217;re still going. Don&#8217;t worry. We&#8217;ll be peaceful, we&#8217;ll be careful, we&#8217;ll be ok. Kimberley pointed me at a Rowan Thorpe rant about the Athens riots. It&#8217;s a good rant, and he&#8217;s angry about some of the right things. I&#8217;m not sure, though, that the issue of whether the rioters [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Prependum</em> (for my parents): Yes, we&#8217;re still going. Don&#8217;t worry. We&#8217;ll be peaceful, we&#8217;ll be careful, we&#8217;ll be ok.</p>

<p><a href="http://sierra-le-oli.livejournal.com/">Kimberley</a> pointed me at a <a href="http://www.rowanthorpe.com/writing/miscellaneous/rant_about_athens_riots/">Rowan Thorpe rant</a> about the Athens riots. It&#8217;s a good rant, and he&#8217;s angry about some of the right things.</p>

<p>I&#8217;m not sure, though, that the issue of whether the rioters call themselves &#8216;anarchists&#8217; is so important. The childishness shows in the impulsive short-sighted violence, not in the label attached to it. (I don&#8217;t know enough about the political position to call myself an anarchist, so I don&#8217;t have the unpleasant feeling that &#8216;my&#8217; label is being appropriated by a bunch of violent idiots. I imagine I might feel differently if they were rioting in the name of formal pragmatics.) I agree totally with the childishness of dressing in uniforms (whether official or &#8216;radical&#8217;) and inciting violence. But I miss, in that rant, some anger at the root causes of this madness as well as the immediate expression of it.</p>

<p>There are two groups of people I&#8217;m <em>very</em> angry at about this mess, and another two I&#8217;m <em>fairly</em> angry at.</p>

<p>I&#8217;m furious with the people lighting fires. Whatever they call themselves, that&#8217;s not ok. What do they want, precisely and specifically? And how is setting buildings on fire helping them to get it? (I applauded when they set the christmas tree on fire; burning police stations is nothing but childish misdirected revenge; and I simply cannot understand how anybody could think it&#8217;s a good idea to set a library on fire.) The only answer I can find to these questions is: they want to set things on fire.</p>

<p>I&#8217;m furious with the Greek government. People don&#8217;t riot without two preconditions: (1) They think they&#8217;ll get away with it, and (2) They believe they don&#8217;t have any other way to be heard or to get what they want. The first condition shows the government has absolutely no control over the populous; how then is it &#8220;governing&#8221;? The second is exactly what a democracy is supposed to avoid. These are people who believe, rightly or wrongly, that their government does not, will not, hear their complaints. How is that &#8220;democratic&#8221;?</p>

<p>I&#8217;m angry at the policeman who shot a 15 year old boy. But I&#8217;m <em>furious</em> with the system that made it possible for him to do so: the political system that put an aggressive man in uniform with a loaded gun and sent him out for a predictable &#8216;clash&#8217; with equally aggressive young people; that gave him every reason to believe that he could literally get away with murder.</p>

<p>The Greek justice system, it seems, does not work. Police agents are not properly punished for crimes committed in uniform. Two sets of people believe this (whether it is in fact true is relatively unimportant): the police themselves (who act as if their uniform gives them power instead of responsibility), and the students (who believe that the justice system cannot be trusted to deal properly with these crimes). If they have no faith in official justice, and if they feel aggrieved enough, of course people will take the law into their own hands. And of course the result will be a mess, the hotheads who shout loudest end up leading the protest which turns into a riot, any fool can see this story can&#8217;t end happily. The point of a justice system is not just to punish criminal behaviour, it&#8217;s to reassure people that criminal behaviour is being punished, so that they don&#8217;t feel the need to take things into their own hands. It&#8217;s to stop things like this before they even get started. The Greek government has failed here spectacularly; blame the idiots in uniform but blame even more the idiots who put them in uniform.</p>

<p>The last group I&#8217;m angry at is the moderates; my friends, my girlfriend, the people whose side I&#8217;m on. The people who marched yesterday to the Greek embassy in Den Haag chanting &#8220;Cop, pig, murderer&#8221; and left a message of solidarity demanding the release of every rioter held in custody. <em>You are missing the point.</em> Demand an election, demand a bipartisan government, demand a reform of the police system. Demand the power to change things, put into the hands of those you trust to represent you. Demand that the system be made to work, as concretely and specifically as you can.</p>

<p>Because the demands you <em>have</em> made, they&#8217;ll be accepted. The officer who shot Alexis Grigoropoulos will be punished, sure no problem. The rioters will be released, as a gesture of goodwill if the burning stops. (And every shopkeeper left without a shop will be furious with you for denying him justice, and grateful to the government for paying out when his insurance wouldn&#8217;t: you make it all but inevitable that the entire left becomes &#8220;Those anarchists who rioted in 2008&#8243;.) And when Korkoneas is punished, the police system and government can proudly say &#8220;Look, we&#8217;re cleaning up, we sent that murderer to jail!&#8221; and nothing fundamental has to change.</p>

<p>You should march in protest not out of &#8216;solidarity&#8217; with hopped-up pyromaniacs but out of a desire for change. And a desire for change doesn&#8217;t just mean that you don&#8217;t like things the way they are, it means you know how they should be made better and you ask for it. It&#8217;s not very romantic; it&#8217;s hard to make a chant out of; it probably doesn&#8217;t involve burning anything. But honestly, how much better off are we without the christmas tree, the police stations, and the library?</p>

<p><em>Addendum</em>: We will be in Greece next week. We will probably be avoiding the places where the rioting has been the worst, depending on how the situation developes over the next week or so. I&#8217;m sure this is the only thing we&#8217;ll talk about for our entire holiday, and I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;m going to meet a lot of people who disagree with me totally. There are some questions I&#8217;ll be asking them: (1) What exactly (concretely, precisely) do you want to change? (2) What are you doing to make that possible? (3) What level of violence are you prepared to be involved in, and what level to condone? (4) How are you going to ensure that those levels are enforced, that things don&#8217;t escalate beyond? (5) Are the people you &#8216;stand in solidarity&#8217; with in agreement with your answers? (Or: how much sharing of responsibility does &#8216;standing in solidarity&#8217; entail for you?) I think I&#8217;m satisfied, more or less, with my answers to these questions. Before you attack me for not understanding the situation or the background (Ολγάκι μου, κοιτάω εσένα&#8230;) ask yourself how clear you are on your answers. I think it&#8217;s important.</p>
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		<title>Greece</title>
		<link>http://www.logophile.org/blog/2008/12/09/greece/</link>
		<comments>http://www.logophile.org/blog/2008/12/09/greece/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 16:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>tikitu</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[despair]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[greece]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[politics]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.logophile.org/blog/?p=531</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#8217;s hard to make any cool-headed comment about this. How can a government let so much resentment build up? How can an agressive cop be allowed to carry a loaded gun into a district where &#8216;clashes&#8217; happen regularly? How can anyone take a molotov cocktail to a peaceful march, &#8216;just in case&#8217; it turns ugly? [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s hard to make any cool-headed comment about <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Greek_riots">this</a>.</p>

<p>How can a government let so much resentment build up? How can an agressive cop be allowed to carry a loaded gun into a district where &#8216;clashes&#8217; happen regularly? How can anyone take a molotov cocktail to a peaceful march, &#8216;just in case&#8217; it turns ugly?</p>

<p>How will Greece be better when the fires have burned out?</p>
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